tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post7838698691063665162..comments2023-07-08T05:40:25.922-04:00Comments on Which Way Is Up?: Which Would You Choose?SJhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18085726186055340423noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-72626369880270017992007-12-04T19:38:00.000-05:002007-12-04T19:38:00.000-05:00Agree with G, Mordy. Look at your example of the p...Agree with G, Mordy. Look at your example of the people waiting in line for the bracha, and coming out disappointed. At the same time, they'll experience a story with some cabbie driving around in Israel who suddenly switches from discussing who knows what to some intense discussion about God and Judaism - that's often a lot more inspiring. Which is more inspiring? It's very hard to argue that Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-47756730980418384982007-12-04T12:29:00.000-05:002007-12-04T12:29:00.000-05:00"Who would say they aren't true and just a bunch o..."Who would say they aren't true and just a bunch of fluff?"<BR/><BR/>Those are not necessarily two separate things. A story <I>can</I> be both at the same time.<BR/><BR/>"I personally resent that frum yiddin would sit here and say there are no gedolim of our generation"<BR/><BR/>Resent it all you want, it does not change reality. Take a look at the cover of that book you linked to. Some of Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-38727560881239952302007-12-03T21:01:00.000-05:002007-12-03T21:01:00.000-05:00First of all, I personally resent that frum yiddin...First of all, I personally resent that frum yiddin would sit here and say there are no gedolim of our generation. Open to any page in this book: http://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=9-781583-309315&type=store and then decide whether gedolei yisrael still exist. Who here is going to question the stories in that book, some of which I experienced first hand, and one even actually MordyShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18265671954006341688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-856910551577285852007-12-03T16:54:00.000-05:002007-12-03T16:54:00.000-05:00interlocutor - I don't think that giving the oppos...interlocutor - I don't think that giving the opposite response means that a person has lost sight of the gadol's significance in our lives, rather it may merely be a reflection of the value that he/she places on kiruv. Try flipping it around and thinking about it from the other side.<BR/><BR/>That said, you make a very persuasive argument, as usual.SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18085726186055340423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-41419868225335982702007-12-02T22:49:00.000-05:002007-12-02T22:49:00.000-05:00The theoretical nature of the question shouldn't u...The theoretical nature of the question shouldn't undermine the value of each person's answer on a practical level. Perhaps none of us will ever be faced with this specific decision but, on a much smaller scale, it is important to have a pragmatic view of the gadol's role in our lives. Personally, I think that the answer is obvious: even though it is a significant sacrifice, I equate the question Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-75241414606441205462007-12-02T12:56:00.000-05:002007-12-02T12:56:00.000-05:00anonymous and m.r. - the question is a theoretical...anonymous and m.r. - the question is a theoretical. Obviously, it is not a choice I am ever going to have, and obviously I don't presume to have a "correct" answer, but I do think it worthwhile to ponder interesting philosophical topics, hopefully stimulating discussion and insight. That's all.SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18085726186055340423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-78510705315776497802007-11-29T21:12:00.000-05:002007-11-29T21:12:00.000-05:00A thought, because you specifically brought up Reb...A thought, because you specifically brought up Rebbe Akiva. In many ways, he really deserves the title "transmitter of torah shebaal peh (oral tradition)". Without Rebbe Akiva, it is very difficult to see how the Torah would have been passed down intact. Thus, SJ, I say that your question a dangerous one in which to dabble: who are we to assign value to physical lives, much less spiritual lives? M.R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01871988896906196843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-50817911567153287592007-11-29T13:51:00.000-05:002007-11-29T13:51:00.000-05:00i think that's a really silly question-you are nev...i think that's a really silly question-you are never going to get that choice, you just have to do the best to mekarev each person that you are able to...........Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-65523150816123400092007-11-28T10:16:00.000-05:002007-11-28T10:16:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-41251918362482604832007-11-28T09:50:00.000-05:002007-11-28T09:50:00.000-05:00"But pray, enlighten us as to your reasoning!"----..."But pray, enlighten us as to your reasoning!"<BR/>-----------<BR/><BR/>"Your definition of Gadol Hador makes one wonder if any still exist"...that about sums it up.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-10131174094817271172007-11-28T00:50:00.000-05:002007-11-28T00:50:00.000-05:00He'd take the 10k, I think. He didn't think being ...He'd take the 10k, I think. He didn't think being a 'gadol' was necessarily all that special; merely that he gave people answers to Q's, they respected them, so they sent more people to ask Q's, etc. Presumably, he felt that anyone could have this impact by being honest, respectful, and thinking a little bit.Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-39877701980857679652007-11-27T17:21:00.000-05:002007-11-27T17:21:00.000-05:00I see both sides of the issue. My first instinct w...I see both sides of the issue. My first instinct was to say the 10,000, for the reasons that others mentioned, and also in light of the sources regarding choosing one life over another. The gemara in Yoma discusses the fact that we cannot evaluate whose "blood is redder"--in other words, we cannot assign values to people's lives; it is not our place to determine who is worthier. Based on this SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18085726186055340423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-73437795680283300832007-11-26T19:23:00.000-05:002007-11-26T19:23:00.000-05:00SJ, what's your opinion?SJ, what's your opinion?the applehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756184353010645018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-14373390052397072502007-11-26T13:44:00.000-05:002007-11-26T13:44:00.000-05:00That's an interesting question? Have you come up w...That's an interesting question? Have you come up with a final conclusion?AT PEACEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03848543219417939590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-11849975870729002202007-11-22T18:00:00.000-05:002007-11-22T18:00:00.000-05:0010,000 for sure. I'm extrapolating from the klal t...10,000 for sure. I'm extrapolating from the klal that it's better to give $1 to 100 people than $100 to one. <BR/><BR/>Besides, that's 10,000 lives versus one. But consider that the 10,000 wouldn't otherwise be frum, I think it's more important for them to become observant than for one person to become great.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-23231361924568758022007-11-21T18:34:00.000-05:002007-11-21T18:34:00.000-05:00I recall hearing that this question of quality vs....I recall hearing that this question of quality vs. quantity is an underlying theme of the machlokos Beis Hillel and Beis Shammai - to wit, Beis Shammai felt that the halacha should follow them because they were sharper than the talmidei Beis Hillel, while Beis Hillel felt that it should follow them because they were the majority.<BR/><BR/>R' SY Zevin observes in L'Or HaHalacha that the shitos of Josh M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14414532577328945154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-14798565290381285572007-11-21T01:36:00.000-05:002007-11-21T01:36:00.000-05:00Your definition of Gadol Hador makes one wonder if...Your definition of Gadol Hador makes one wonder if any still exist.... ;-(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-74357718008079252522007-11-20T22:41:00.000-05:002007-11-20T22:41:00.000-05:00I will also now argue the other side. A gadol hado...I will also now argue the other side. A gadol hador has the ability to contribute to Torah in a way that 10,000 laymen, albeit frum ones, do not. He is a leader in a generation that so needs its leaders - every single one it can get. The Jewish people as a whole seem so lost in this era that the more leaders we have, the better off we are, I think.Erachethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660802321998349072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-26169547375405876742007-11-20T10:04:00.000-05:002007-11-20T10:04:00.000-05:00G - I'm so glad to have found someone who takes th...G - I'm so glad to have found someone who takes the other approach--this discussion so far has been too one-sided for my taste. But pray, enlighten us as to your reasoning!SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18085726186055340423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-66001568540152505262007-11-20T09:41:00.000-05:002007-11-20T09:41:00.000-05:00"Torah learning and living"Using the above definit..."Torah learning and living"<BR/><BR/>Using the above definition, I would be mekareiv the individual as apposed to the group.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-74142267409431868152007-11-19T20:36:00.000-05:002007-11-19T20:36:00.000-05:00Gadol Hador - [GA-dol ha-DOR]; noun; lit. "Great o...Gadol Hador - [GA-dol ha-DOR]; noun; lit. "Great one of the generation; one who is looked up to by the Jewish community as a whole as a great leader of the generation as a result of his accomplishments in the areas of Torah learning and living; EX: Rav Moshe Feinstein was a gadol hador.<BR/><BR/>Does that answer the question?SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18085726186055340423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-51725995614475033382007-11-19T17:04:00.000-05:002007-11-19T17:04:00.000-05:00Define Gadol HadorDefine Gadol HadorGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-37481808272070848312007-11-18T16:40:00.000-05:002007-11-18T16:40:00.000-05:00Ten thousand would be a significant percentage of ...Ten thousand would be a significant percentage of the Orthodox world. Chances are really good that they'd have children who could be gedolim, even if none of them are themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-5180291840897000962007-11-18T15:50:00.000-05:002007-11-18T15:50:00.000-05:00The 10,000 because of all the kids and grandkids w...The 10,000 because of all the kids and grandkids who would have a much greater probability of being religious.Madd Hatterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15019102671320169820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35449554.post-54342245853097737602007-11-18T09:56:00.000-05:002007-11-18T09:56:00.000-05:00I actually did factor that in... I wasn't saying f...I actually did factor that in... I wasn't saying from a kiruv point of view per se; just that they inspire others to change/improve, etc.<BR/><BR/>I think 10,000 regular people would inspire people to change and improve far more than one could; and I don't think we consider a gadol's contribution to Torah greater than a layman who struggles. And who knows, the 10,000 could inspire many gedolim ofEzziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.com